REMOVING YOUR INBOARD ENGINE, ENGINE MOUNT TIPS AND RETRIMMING A TRITON

COMMON QUESTIONS:

How to close off the propeller shaft opening so that a future owner can reverse the situation, if they choose?

How to fill the cutlass bearing hole?

How to just close off the inside end of the stuffing box tube?

How to fill the aperture depression area?

How can the hull be retrimmed after the loss of engine weight?

Check out Tim Lackey, #381, Glissando's web site for A4 removal (plus total restoration)

 

A. J. Matthews #605, Ay Mon

As far as getting to the mounting bolts is concerned, go to your local auto parts store and purchase an inexpensive box wrench (it should be 9/16). Put the wrench in a vise and cut it in two. Now you have two wrenches that you can keep in your tool box that will fit in the extremely small space under the starter.

Also, presoak all of your mounting bolts with PB Blaster. You should find it at any good hardware store. My mounting bolts are bronze and were only mildly difficult to remove until I made "the wrench". The "Blaster" just loosens up the gunk in and around the bolts and engine. Hell, you shouldn't leave port without a can anyway.

 

Al, #26, Esprit

I believe it is a 9/16 square head if your boat uses bronze lags into wood bedding. The tough one is aft to starboard, very little room to turn the wrench. Pull the cabinets so you can reach behind the engine from the port side and get on the starboard bolt. You get about 1/8 turn per try but it should come on out. When your arm gets tired, you can get at it through the bronze reversing gear plate in the cockpit.

The forward starboard bolt is not a bolt (or at least not on Esprit) it is a pin lagged into the bedding that keys to a hole in the motor bedding flange. You must lift the engine off of this before you can slide it forward.

 

Richard Loerky, #573, KAI VAI

As I remember, the front ones were no great problem. My rear bolts had NO head to grip so ground them flush with one of those dental-like cable drill extensions hoping to tap them out, lift engine off. No such luck. The bolt had become one with the engine. Then had to grind nut end off and lift engine. Each bolt took about 2 hrs to grind. Good luck. Use stainless when re-mounting!

 

Bill Bell, #41, Kialoa

It appears to me that some of your advisors are not aware of some fundamental differences between Sausalito boats and Bristol boats. When you cite that you have access to both the bolt heads and the nuts on your engine mounting hardware, I understand that your engine is mounted on a flange. Some of the advisors mention removing lag bolts from wooden engine beds. I think that this construction is Sausalito; all Bristol boats had fiberglass flanges to support the engines. I agree that the matter of undoing the engine bed bolts is a horror. It will be much easier if you can remove the flanking furniture as suggested by another reader. Having at it with "Blaster" and a variety of wrenches will help.

I did not notice mention of 12 point box end wrenches. They can be a real help sometimes. And be sure to use stainless steel bolts when you put it all back together, with lock washers. The A4 is almost guaranteed to be worth rebuilding. You probably won't have to do as much as you have been expecting to do. As Editor of the past several NTA Improvement Bulletins, I have had enough experience to be able to reassure you on this. Few A4s are replaced because the engine was really kaput.

The best single source of dispassionate info on the A4 is Don Moyer of Moyer Marine at 3000 Derry Street, Harrisburg PA 17111, (717) 564 5748. Don is a retired USAF engineer who has made a business of A4 service. He wrote a series of letters on the A4 which I think can be purchased as a set. He will talk with you and he sells the parts you need. He can competently discuss what to look for and what to do without emotional involvement or ignorance. Call him and he can tell you how to proceed and what his services will cost you. Back when he published the newsletter, you paid an annual fee which also allowed you to call him now and then with questions. I don't know his charge for talking with people now but you will find him most accommodating.

An A4 can look horrible and be thoroughly salvageable. If you have the original jacketed copper exhaust, fear not. Mine is 40 years old and still perfect. By the way, I have never yet heard of a fuel fed fire on a Triton. Of course, you must pay attention to everything in the system. A common bad spot is in the piece of steel pipe which comes just after the deck fill fitting - usually bronze - onto which the rubber fill pipe to the tank is secured. It is very hard to get hold of - but it can be badly corroded or eaten away. Check it carefully, I have seen some that were almost porous.

About the spars; have a competent expert look at them. My 40 year old spars (Kialoa is hull #41) are fine. Watch the method of attaching accessories to the spar, some metals do not agree with each other. The most common problem I know of is the heel or bottom of the mast corroding badly. So you cut off a inch ot two the next time you replace the standing rigging, no big deal.

 

Richard Zryd, #119, Follow Me

I have been following your chats about engines and thought I would join in. My boat had an Atomic, but it was a ball of rust when I got it. I attached an outboard off the transom as a temporary while I searched for an engine, I found out in the middle of lake Erie, that large swells would put the engine 12" under water. Surprisingly the little motor kept running with just the air under the shroud. After three days of storms, the igniion began to break down, so I had to crawl home. I bought a 4 cylinder kermath sea cadet to replace the outboard. It was almost an exact replacement for the A-4. It has a little less horsepower, but it extended my cruising range, and I only paid $250.00 back in 1987.

 

Harry James

I kept the cutlass bearing in and filled it with a plug that I epoxied in with thickened epoxy that filled the groves in the cutlass bearing. I figured it would be relatively easy to drill this out and then remove the cutlass bearing and install a new one. I then covered it with two layers of glass in epoxy.

I then filled the aperture with foam and sanded it to shape, and fiberglassed it. I figure I could bring the whole thing back to normal in about two hours of work.

 

Ginius, #198

Two seasons ago I replaced my A-4 with a Merc 9.9 4 stroke (new) with an electric start and remote shift etc. I have had no problems with the motor as such. But a little practice with the increased turning radius because of the thrust behind the rudder.

The weight of the OB did not offset the weight of the A-4 so, the waterline was a little higher is the stern and any crew weight forward of the mast allowed for the OB to climb out of the water. Before I removed my A-4, I noted how the boat sat on the waterline. (note:, my fuel tank was not below the center of the cockpit but, in the rear starboard quarter. I have the previous owners notes on mods, and the location of the fuel tank was in its original position) Then, when I installed the outboard, I noted the waterline again.. The boat was higher in the stern than the bow. After a few test sails, the boat handled the same as before but, I noticed if there was only two on board, while under power, if one goes forward of the mast, the prop will climb out of the water. So, I tested again with my young nephew, who weighs about 125lbs, moving the moveable ballast around,.... along as he was in the cockpit, the prop stayed in the water regardless of how heavy the bowman was. So, I put in 160lbs of sand bags in the engine bilge and the trim is perfect.

I feel the Triton, and others designed at that time, had quite a bit of variation in manufacture and the performance and trim is more forgiving than the current ultra-lite racing machines of today.

 

Zach, Pylasteki, #101.

I pulled my Atomic Four and have a 6 horsepower mercury 4 stroke, long shaft hanging on the transom. Garhauer mount. Make sure your model allows for adjusting the angle of the transom. I bought the one that was in stock... broke down on the way home! So I have an aluminum chock welded up to give mine a 90 degree surface to bolt to. Also, get an adjustable mount, and mount it low enough that you can lower the outboard deeper than ideal. Helps to be able to fine tune for trim, and going to weather. I took the plastic mounting board and flipped it upside down after I had installed it... lets me put the prop deeper.

My Garhauer mount is mostly aluminum, and has some massive springs that make raising and lowering a piece of cake.

Starting a pull start is no big deal if you have an adjustable mount... just get the intake in the water, start it, and drop it down to operating height.

The good news: Docking is actually a lot easier, if you use both the boats rudder and the outboards tiller... Reverse works, and I can spin her around in her own length! I mounted mine on the starboard side as I'm right handed, I sit on the back deck and steer with my feet on the boat tiller, and steer the outboard with my right hand. Handles like a trailer sailor!

Always starts on the first pull, and has given me no problems... a lot easier on gas than the atomic four.

Downsides - Powering into a chop sucks. The prop lifts clear of the water. The atomic four did the same thing... so I'm going the same one and a half knots straight into the wind and chop, I don't see any real loss of performance. .. but the outboard sure adds to the drama and noise.

Since I pulled the A-4, the back of the boat is much lighter... so I need move the bracket much lower. At the moment, the prop nut is half dry when I lower the outboard!

 

Ted

It seems like it might be pretty difficult to re-trim the Triton if the A4 is removed and not replaces with another engine. From Alberg's 1958 plans (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/triton/ files/ Alberg1958.jpg) the fore-to-aft trim for the Triton is 10.75". The Moment to Change Trim (MCI) is about 450 ft-lbs per change of trim in inches (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/triton/ files/ SPECS.DOC). Roughly the A4 weighs about 350 lbs. It is about 6 feet aft of the Center of Floatation (CF) ,near maximum beam. It creates about 2100 ft-lb of trim torque about the CF. A fuel tank (30 lbs) with 10 gallons of fuel (60 lbs) under the cockpit seats (9 ft) would generate (30+60)x9 or 810 ft-lbs of trim torque about the CF. The total trim torque from the engine (2100 ft-lb) and the supporting fuel system (810 ft-lbs) would be about 3000 ft-lbs. Dividing the 3000 ft-lbs from the engine system by 450 ft-lbs per inch indicates that the hull trim would change by about 6" when the engine is removed. Roughly that would raise the stern by 3" and lower the bow by the same amount. The only way to replace the trim torque from the engine system (3000 ft-lbs) would be to add the equivalent amount of trim torque producing weight aft of the stern. An 80 lb outboard off the stern (16 ft aft of the CF) would create 1300 ft-lbs of trim torque. A 20 gallon water tank (160 lbs) on the aft end of the engine bed (7 ft aft of the CF) would generate another 1100 ft-lbs of trim torque. That would bring the total up to 2400 ft-lbs. Maybe storing 50 lbs of extra anchors in the lazerette (14 ft aft of the CF) would generate 700 ft-lbs of trim torque. Then the total would come up to 3100 ft-lbs of trim torque. That's pretty close to the total torque for the engine system. The only problem would be working around the 20 gallon water tank in the engine compartment. Is'nt that why I removed the iron monster?

Debbie Weeks

I used a circular saw... the space between the mounts was just wide enough for the Makita I had at the time. I was careful to cut it high enough so I wasn't getting into the fiberglass hull on either side. Heat didn't seem to be a problem as I took it easy; not the safest procedure, so be VERY careful! Good luck...

 

Larry, Offshore Blues, #619

I installed four 12 volt batteries. I left the motor mounts as they were, so in case I wanted to I could add the motor back or sell the boat with that capability. I mounted a battery down between the mounts, a battery in front of the mounts, and two on the aft end of the mounts in a box. When I pulled the engine out it had no shims or anything for alignment. The mounts and engine matched so well that I did not want to destroy that design.

On the forward end of the mounts I mounted a removable plywood board with a Tupperware container screwed to it for battery compartment tools with bungee cords to keep the lid on. I used bolts and wing nuts to keep the board in place so I could lift it and get to the battery down between the mounts. All the batteries are held in place in case the boat was rolled over. These features take time to figure out and do. So removing the motor mounts may be faster, simpler and provide better use of available space. Just keep in mind that what ever you do...... access to service those batteries is necessary. One thing else. I used the wing nut attachment on the batteries for my battery cables. I do not now trust that feature and when I get time I will go back and change over to the bolt and nut clamps to the battery posts.

Also I have a hatch in the cockpit floor/sole that is about 17 X 15 that allows me access to lay down and reach forward to the aft end of the battery box. That hatch opening took some time to strongly reinforce its perimeter before machine screwing in the hatch.. It also provides access to install a 23 gallon flex water tank under the cockpit sole and to install or maintain wiring and plumbing. It also made it easy for access to the shaft log and reverse gear and shaft flanges.

 

Mark Harrington, Ananke, #166

I used 6 (six) golf cart batteries (about 330 lb), and a lot of water in storage under the cockpit sole to balance the boat. When I pulled my A4, the engine weighed a little over 300 lbs, the exhaust system a little less than 100 lbs, but the exhaust starts along the engine and the weight spreads aft.

I also cut my motor mounts with a skill saw, in a way that allowed me o mount a 3/4" plywood shelf for the batteries and have the batteries more or less level. the location of the motor mounting lag screws was so oil soaked that three almost unscrewed by hand, and the fourth must have vibrated out (?) and was in the bilge. Once I cut the mounts down level, there were only 2 oil soaked spots left.

By the way, a triton does not sail well bow down!